Its not Hodgson’s fault that Liverpool have a poor squad, that rests with the owners who have allowed a negative net spend for the last four transfer windows, but the performances against the likes of West Brom, Utrecht, Northampton and Blackpool are his fault, and Purslow’s for appointing him.

Oh, and here are the players Rafa left Hodgson
Pepe Reina 27 Steven Gerrard 30
Diego Cavilieri 27 Lucas Leiva 23
Glen Johnson 25 Maxi Rodriguez 29
Philipp Degen 27 Jay Spearing 21
Stephen Darby 21 Damien Plessis 22
Jamie Carragher 32 Albert Riera 28
Daniel Agger 25 Ryan Babel 23
Sotirios Kyrgiakos 30 Jonjo Shelvey 18
Martin Skrtel 25 Fernando Torres 26
Martin Kelly 20 David N’Gog 21
Daniel Ayala 19 Nathan Eccleston 19
Danny Wilson 18 Milan Jovanovic 29
Emiliano Insua 21 Daniel Pacheco 19
Alberto Aquilani26 Javier Mascherano 26
Dirk Kuyt 30 Nabil El-Zhar 23

Why did he sell Riera? Riera had a problem with Benitez, not with Liverpool. In fact, he’d be infinitely better at Pool than Olympiakos. Why did he sell Insua, when Aurelio is made of glass? Why did he not keep Aquilani? Why did he replace Mascherano with such a shit player?

elrojodiablo - 04 October 2010 12:53 AM

kam1nsk1 - 04 October 2010 12:47 AM

Our squad is threadbare it is true, but that was down to Rafa not being given the funds

I seriously hope you are joking.

I’m not joking, no. If Rafa was given the money to build a great squad, then where is it? It’s hardly like we have bought high and sold low and that’s where all the money has gone is it? Although it is always sneered at, the net spend is important, as it shows how little the squad investment has been. Over the last few seasons we have actually sold high and bought low, reducing the quality of the team drastically.

Rafa had glaring flaws, his mid level buys were often poor and his man management was terrible, but the problems at Liverpool are not solely or even mostly down to him. The main problem is one of expectations. The fans and the media act like regardless of the players or the budget, its still Liverpool, and they should always be able to compete with the big boys.
Rafa tried to conform to this and build a great first XI that could compete for trophies, even if they cannot sustain a league run (something they actually defied logic and did in the 08/09 season). His failing ultimately was one of ambition, buying the likes of Glenn Johnson to try to push on to the next level when he really probably should have played safe and bought another striker. Incidentally the strong impression that came from him at that time was that he was promised more funds and then not backed (just like when he sold Keane and the money was never reinvested). By trying to have one good player in every position, rather than 2 good players for the most important positions he left the team hanging by a thread if someone like Torres got injured. Torres did get injured, along with most of the first choice last season, and the rest is history.

kam1nsk1 - 04 October 2010 04:54 AM

elrojodiablo - 04 October 2010 12:53 AM

kam1nsk1 - 04 October 2010 12:47 AM

Our squad is threadbare it is true, but that was down to Rafa not being given the funds

I seriously hope you are joking.

I’m not joking, no. If Rafa was given the money to build a great squad, then where is it? It’s hardly like we have bought high and sold low and that’s where all the money has gone is it? Although it is always sneered at, the net spend is important, as it shows how little the squad investment has been. Over the last few seasons we have actually sold high and bought low, reducing the quality of the team drastically.

Rafa had glaring flaws, his mid level buys were often poor and his man management was terrible, but the problems at Liverpool are not solely or even mostly down to him. The main problem is one of expectations. The fans and the media act like regardless of the players or the budget, its still Liverpool, and they should always be able to compete with the big boys.
Rafa tried to conform to this and build a great first XI that could compete for trophies, even if they cannot sustain a league run (something they actually defied logic and did in the 08/09 season). His failing ultimately was one of ambition, buying the likes of Glenn Johnson to try to push on to the next level when he really probably should have played safe and bought another striker. Incidentally the strong impression that came from him at that time was that he was promised more funds and then not backed (just like when he sold Keane and the money was never reinvested). By trying to have one good player in every position, rather than 2 good players for the most important positions he left the team hanging by a thread if someone like Torres got injured. Torres did get injured, along with most of the first choice last season, and the rest is history.

 

So surely the fact the squad is so weak is Benitez fault? I quite simply cannot believe how much Benitez is defended by Liverpool fans, I honestly can’t understand it. According to http://www.transferleague.co.uk/, Liverpool have spent nearly £200m since 2006 and recouped nearly £150m. Net spend is incredibly important (as a United fan, ours in those years is £10.25m over those years) and maybe Liverpool’s isn’t massive, but on that table they’re still 5th highest, with Chelsea, Arsenal and United a fair way below them. Some of his signings were awful, Johnson, a defender who apparently can’t defend for around £18m, Aquilani who played very few games for about £20m, Keane for £20m, all big money signings who flopped. Ferguson has spent big on players in the past who haven’t done it, but that was when we could afford it. Neither of us can now, and if Benitez kept going back asking for money they have rightly told him to fuck off as he obviously can’t spend it properly. He’s still living off the back of the Champions League victory, done little since then to show he is a good manager.

So surely the fact the squad is so weak is Benitez fault? I quite simply cannot believe how much Benitez is defended by Liverpool fans, I honestly can’t understand it. According to http://www.transferleague.co.uk/, Liverpool have spent nearly £200m since 2006 and recouped nearly £150m. Net spend is incredibly important (as a United fan, ours in those years is £10.25m over those years) and maybe Liverpool’s isn’t massive, but on that table they’re still 5th highest, with Chelsea, Arsenal and United a fair way below them. Some of his signings were awful, Johnson, a defender who apparently can’t defend for around £18m, Aquilani who played very few games for about £20m, Keane for £20m, all big money signings who flopped. Ferguson has spent big on players in the past who haven’t done it, but that was when we could afford it. Neither of us can now, and if Benitez kept going back asking for money they have rightly told him to fuck off as he obviously can’t spend it properly. He’s still living off the back of the Champions League victory, done little since then to show he is a good manager.

Firstly, let’s get one thing straight - the hugely anomalous transfer of Christiano Ronaldo has massively skewed the net spending of United. And are you really saying that Johnson,  the first choice England left back, is not worth a big transfer? He may not be able to defend, but that can be improved with time and training, and having a system of defensive cover from midfield allows the impact of this flaw to be greatly lessened. The Aquilani transfer left us short last year as his injury was worse than previously thought, and I admit it was frustrating to see him not play when he was fit, but Rafa must have had his reasons (in all likelihood he looked like he was having trouble adjusting in training and Rafa did not want to throw him to the wolves when he needed more time). But he was and is a young, quality player and looked good when he did get a run out, and in time may have been a really great starter. Unfortunately Woy shipped him out the door and replaced him with a Scandinavian clodder who never was or will be good enough. I’ll grant you Keane, I still have no idea what happened there. But it’s not like no other manager has ever made a transfer cock-up (I won’t say Veron.. whoops). And what happened to the Keane money? It was meant to be reinvested, but disappeared in a puff of HSBC interest.

You say on paper they have the 5th best squad. Yes, and we finished 7th. Disaster. Benitez is an utter fool. The previous year we finished 2nd. Benitez is a genius? Which is it?
In truth he is neither, but all managers have an off season (Wenger needed an outbreak of bangalore belly to avoid finishing 5th a few years ago) and the owners used this convenient fact to get rid of a noisy and troublesome thorn in their side.

We are currently 3rd from bottom, with the worst start in 50 years or so. But at least we have an English manager… great.

Canadian in Taiwan - 03 October 2010 05:36 PM

I’m becoming increasingly infuriated at watching liverpool this year. The only thing making it better is knowing that manchester united aren’t on top and everton are just as bad. but I’m wondering a few things…

1-glen johnson is a great wing back but he doesn’t have a defensive bone in his body. why wouldn’t liverpool just buy a proper RB and put glen on the wing up front?

2-After watching carragher getting skinned at the world cup I knew that it was going to be a tough year at anfield. Is it time for him to accept a lesser role with the team?

3-Torres, for my money he is the best striker in the world but recently (the past year or so) he has taken to complaining more and more. his body language is quite obvious as well. is it time to cash in? (side note: when he runs, does it look like he’s running in quick sand?)

I think that liverpool should sell off their assets (reina, johnson, gerrard, torres, maxi, babel, jovanovic, lucas) if things aren’t shaping up by december and they’re in a relegation battle. but only on 2 conditions. 1- they’re sold to teams outside of the EPL. I think over 100million could be raised. 2-the money is available for buying new players. The players have lost their drive and Gerrard can’t save them every game. its not fair to him or the team.

Sometimes you gotta just push the reset button…

but who am I to say, i’m just a Canadian in Taiwan

Cheers everyone!

Yes, if we are in trouble, we should our best players. Idiot.

kam1nsk1 - 04 October 2010 07:19 AM

So surely the fact the squad is so weak is Benitez fault? I quite simply cannot believe how much Benitez is defended by Liverpool fans, I honestly can’t understand it. According to http://www.transferleague.co.uk/, Liverpool have spent nearly £200m since 2006 and recouped nearly £150m. Net spend is incredibly important (as a United fan, ours in those years is £10.25m over those years) and maybe Liverpool’s isn’t massive, but on that table they’re still 5th highest, with Chelsea, Arsenal and United a fair way below them. Some of his signings were awful, Johnson, a defender who apparently can’t defend for around £18m, Aquilani who played very few games for about £20m, Keane for £20m, all big money signings who flopped. Ferguson has spent big on players in the past who haven’t done it, but that was when we could afford it. Neither of us can now, and if Benitez kept going back asking for money they have rightly told him to fuck off as he obviously can’t spend it properly. He’s still living off the back of the Champions League victory, done little since then to show he is a good manager.

Firstly, let’s get one thing straight - the hugely anomalous transfer of Christiano Ronaldo has massively skewed the net spending of United. And are you really saying that Johnson,  the first choice England left back, is not worth a big transfer? He may not be able to defend, but that can be improved with time and training, and having a system of defensive cover from midfield allows the impact of this flaw to be greatly lessened. The Aquilani transfer left us short last year as his injury was worse than previously thought, and I admit it was frustrating to see him not play when he was fit, but Rafa must have had his reasons (in all likelihood he looked like he was having trouble adjusting in training and Rafa did not want to throw him to the wolves when he needed more time). But he was and is a young, quality player and looked good when he did get a run out, and in time may have been a really great starter. Unfortunately Woy shipped him out the door and replaced him with a Scandinavian clodder who never was or will be good enough. I’ll grant you Keane, I still have no idea what happened there. But it’s not like no other manager has ever made a transfer cock-up (I won’t say Veron.. whoops). And what happened to the Keane money? It was meant to be reinvested, but disappeared in a puff of HSBC interest.

You say on paper they have the 5th best squad. Yes, and we finished 7th. Disaster. Benitez is an utter fool. The previous year we finished 2nd. Benitez is a genius? Which is it?
In truth he is neither, but all managers have an off season (Wenger needed an outbreak of bangalore belly to avoid finishing 5th a few years ago) and the owners used this convenient fact to get rid of a noisy and troublesome thorn in their side.

We are currently 3rd from bottom, with the worst start in 50 years or so. But at least we have an English manager… great.

I didn’t say you have the fifth best squad, just that on that table your net spend was fifth highest. Also I noted that Ferguson has made transfer cock ups with a big fee attached, meaning Veron. Also if you want to moan about Keane’s transfer money not being re-invested, just look at where that Ronaldo money has gone…..

The truth is obviously somewhere in the middle, no way can Hodgson be blameless in this and he obviously isn’t adapting to managing Liverpool, but Benitez should take some of the blame in my opinion, but a lot of Liverpool fans I know are completely unwilling to put any blame his way when obviously he obviously deserves some.

I didn’t say you have the fifth best squad, just that on that table your net spend was fifth highest. Also I noted that Ferguson has made transfer cock ups with a big fee attached, meaning Veron. Also if you want to moan about Keane’s transfer money not being re-invested, just look at where that Ronaldo money has gone…..

The truth is obviously somewhere in the middle, no way can Hodgson be blameless in this and he obviously isn’t adapting to managing Liverpool, but Benitez should take some of the blame in my opinion, but a lot of Liverpool fans I know are completely unwilling to put any blame his way when obviously he obviously deserves some.

I am not and never have been a huge fan of Benitez, as I have said his man-management has always been poor and his transfer dealings have always been suspect. My issue is merely that if you are to replace a manager it should not be- A) on the back of one bad season (which is starting to come into some perspective now), or B) to bring in someone who has never given any indication of being any better, but has been put in a similar situation before and got the team in question relegated (Blackburn).

Get rid of Rafa and bring in Hiddink, Mourinho or even Pelligrini? Fine. It makes sense and they have shown that they have the potential to improve the teams chances. But Hodgeson? Sorry, no. Average manager, won nothing, would never get a look in at any other ‘top’ team. And is showing that his tactics and skills are not suited to the job.

You know Hodgson did manage teams before Fulham, right?

JonnyGabriel - 04 October 2010 09:20 AM

You know Hodgson did manage teams before Fulham, right?

Not exactly the best ones, though, did he, with the exception of perhaps Inter? The very fact that he had to introduce zonal marking (for open play,not set pieces) in his time in Scandinavia shows how rudimentary footballing knowledge was there. He has not managed at the highest level. Rafa, on the other hand, won 2 La Liga titles with Spain, made Liverpool a European powerhouse except in his last season, and is now managing the reigning European champions. Upgrade!

kam1nsk1 - 04 October 2010 08:43 AM

I didn’t say you have the fifth best squad, just that on that table your net spend was fifth highest. Also I noted that Ferguson has made transfer cock ups with a big fee attached, meaning Veron. Also if you want to moan about Keane’s transfer money not being re-invested, just look at where that Ronaldo money has gone…..

The truth is obviously somewhere in the middle, no way can Hodgson be blameless in this and he obviously isn’t adapting to managing Liverpool, but Benitez should take some of the blame in my opinion, but a lot of Liverpool fans I know are completely unwilling to put any blame his way when obviously he obviously deserves some.

I am not and never have been a huge fan of Benitez, as I have said his man-management has always been poor and his transfer dealings have always been suspect. My issue is merely that if you are to replace a manager it should not be- A) on the back of one bad season (which is starting to come into some perspective now), or B) to bring in someone who has never given any indication of being any better, but has been put in a similar situation before and got the team in question relegated (Blackburn).

Get rid of Rafa and bring in Hiddink, Mourinho or even Pelligrini? Fine. It makes sense and they have shown that they have the potential to improve the teams chances. But Hodgeson? Sorry, no. Average manager, won nothing, would never get a look in at any other ‘top’ team. And is showing that his tactics and skills are not suited to the job.

You are out of your mind if you think that:

a) Pellegrini is a better manager than Hodgson
b) Mourinho and Hiddink would entertain going to Liverpool when they’re in the worst state they’ve been in for 50 years.

Some Liverpool fans seem incapable of realising what a mess they’re in. You were LUCKY to get a manager like Hodgson, but he’s not a magician.

And are you really saying that Johnson,  the first choice England left back, is not worth a big transfer? He may not be able to defend, but that can be improved with time and training, and having a system of defensive cover from midfield allows the impact of this flaw to be greatly lessened.

You’ve answered your own question… if anyone was spunking £18 million on a right back, the absolute very least you’d expect of them is to be able to do their job to a competent manner, and I’d say the ability to defend would be a good attribute to have for a right back yes?

RE: Hodgson at Blackburn.

He finished in the European places in his only full season in charge. The season they got relegated he left before Christmas.

Why did you highlight ‘I’m just a Canadian’?

kam1nsk1 - 04 October 2010 07:52 AM

Yes, if we are in trouble, we should our best players. Idiot.

Easy compadre. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

(Drogba and Villa are both better strikers than Torres)

JonnyGabriel - 04 October 2010 10:51 AM

kam1nsk1 - 04 October 2010 07:52 AM

Yes, if we are in trouble, we should our best players. Idiot.

Easy compadre. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

(Drogba and Villa are both better strikers than Torres)

Villa is, Drogba being better is arguable. Torres had the most goals/min last year despite receiving very little service, and Drogba has consistently played in a better team. But why is that important to a discussion about Liverpool selling their best players?

Lukey Moore - 04 October 2010 10:12 AM

kam1nsk1 - 04 October 2010 08:43 AM

I didn’t say you have the fifth best squad, just that on that table your net spend was fifth highest. Also I noted that Ferguson has made transfer cock ups with a big fee attached, meaning Veron. Also if you want to moan about Keane’s transfer money not being re-invested, just look at where that Ronaldo money has gone…..

The truth is obviously somewhere in the middle, no way can Hodgson be blameless in this and he obviously isn’t adapting to managing Liverpool, but Benitez should take some of the blame in my opinion, but a lot of Liverpool fans I know are completely unwilling to put any blame his way when obviously he obviously deserves some.

I am not and never have been a huge fan of Benitez, as I have said his man-management has always been poor and his transfer dealings have always been suspect. My issue is merely that if you are to replace a manager it should not be- A) on the back of one bad season (which is starting to come into some perspective now), or B) to bring in someone who has never given any indication of being any better, but has been put in a similar situation before and got the team in question relegated (Blackburn).

Get rid of Rafa and bring in Hiddink, Mourinho or even Pelligrini? Fine. It makes sense and they have shown that they have the potential to improve the teams chances. But Hodgeson? Sorry, no. Average manager, won nothing, would never get a look in at any other ‘top’ team. And is showing that his tactics and skills are not suited to the job.

You are out of your mind if you think that:

a) Pellegrini is a better manager than Hodgson
b) Mourinho and Hiddink would entertain going to Liverpool when they’re in the worst state they’ve been in for 50 years.

Some Liverpool fans seem incapable of realising what a mess they’re in. You were LUCKY to get a manager like Hodgson, but he’s not a magician.

Luke, I think Pellegrini is a much better manager than Hodgson, and his record points to that. He worked wonders on a small budget with Villareal, and despite the fact that he won fuck all with Real, they played a very attractive style of football and only finished 3 points behind Barca, who had 99!!! What has Hodgson achieved on the same level?

Bikram Rana - 04 October 2010 11:23 AM

JonnyGabriel - 04 October 2010 10:51 AM

kam1nsk1 - 04 October 2010 07:52 AM

Yes, if we are in trouble, we should our best players. Idiot.

Easy compadre. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

(Drogba and Villa are both better strikers than Torres)

Villa is, Drogba being better is arguable. Torres had the most goals/min last year despite receiving very little service, and Drogba has consistently played in a better team. But why is that important to a discussion about Liverpool selling their best players?

The theory being, if the decline continues, you may find that players refuse to sign new contracts and end up being sold very cheaply, or leaving on a free entirely.

The idea to sell them whilst they are still in a contract and actually make some money from the situation Liverpool are in, is in no way whatsoever the worst idea at all.

If you feel that Liverpool can somehow recover from this given their current financial status then of course, it’s best to hang on to your best players.

tbh, Canadian is far less of an idiot than you think he/she is.

Bikram Rana - 04 October 2010 11:23 AM

JonnyGabriel - 04 October 2010 10:51 AM

kam1nsk1 - 04 October 2010 07:52 AM

Yes, if we are in trouble, we should our best players. Idiot.

Easy compadre. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

(Drogba and Villa are both better strikers than Torres)

Villa is, Drogba being better is arguable. Torres had the most goals/min last year despite receiving very little service, and Drogba has consistently played in a better team. But why is that important to a discussion about Liverpool selling their best players?

I highlighted the bit about selling players because calling the poster an idiot was needless.

However, he called Torres the best striker in the world in the OP and that’s what I took issue with.

Pellegrini/Hodgson aside (I’d rather have Hodgson, you’d rather have Pellegrini; fair enough), my overall point about Liverpool fans being deluded stands.

Tell me who else Liverpool could have realistically got to replace Benitez, given the state they’re in? Liverpool are in the worst state financially and organisationally since Shankly. Who transformed the club. It was his life’s work.

People suggesting that they should have got Hiddink or someone of that ilk are showing a MASSIVE lack of understanding of the situation.

Hodgson only took the job because Liverpool is a national institution in Britain, and as an Englishman he couldn’t turn it down. Liverpool fans should be giving him time to do his job under ridiculous circumstances, and also thanking him for leaving a job he enjoyed and was successful at to help out their club when no-one else of note would touch it with a shitty barge pole.

kisskissbangbang - 04 October 2010 10:19 AM

And are you really saying that Johnson,  the first choice England left back, is not worth a big transfer? He may not be able to defend, but that can be improved with time and training, and having a system of defensive cover from midfield allows the impact of this flaw to be greatly lessened.

You’ve answered your own question… if anyone was spunking £18 million on a right back, the absolute very least you’d expect of them is to be able to do their job to a competent manner, and I’d say the ability to defend would be a good attribute to have for a right back yes?

 

 

JOhnson is the same player as Bale…

They are wingers masquerading as full backs…

Lukey Moore - 04 October 2010 11:32 AM

Hodgson only took the job because Liverpool is a national institution in Britain, and as an Englishman he couldn’t turn it down. Liverpool fans should be giving him time to do his job under ridiculous circumstances, and also thanking him for leaving a job he enjoyed and was successful at to help out their club when no-one else of note would touch it with a shitty barge pole.

Excellent point, I think you’d be very hard pressed to find a team that Woy has managed in the past that doesn’t have the utmost respect for the man (possibly Blackburn aside, although he did take them into to Europe in his first full season).

Woy deserves more from a club that expects too much.

Woy deserves more from a club that expects too much.

This thread summarised in 10 words. Spot on.

There’s no doubting that Liverpool are going to be in for a tough season, but I can’t agree with selling our assets.  As far as I know, no-one’s out of contract at the end of the season, and the January transfer window is notoriously bad for (1) being devoid of many big players and (2) players who do sign not being up to speed.  None of the big clubs make much of a move then.

Hodgson and the players need to sort out the system they are playing, and start grinding out the results.  I wouldn’t worry about player sales until next summer when, hopefully, the club ownership has been resolved and the mood can be lifted.

I was pleased when Hodgson was appointed in the summer - he has shown in the last few years that he can take a group of average players and elevate them beyond where they should be (and has been hugely successful abroad for many years - something a lot of English fans seem to ignore, what with the Premier League [uses David Mitchell’s sarcastic voice] “being the greatest league in the wold.  EVER!”.  Perhaps Fulham have harder working players than the Liverpool squad, but the quality is better at Anfield overall.

I’m still pleased Hodgson is there, although the start has been poor.  He also started poorly at Fulham but left them in a great position.  As Luke says, who else would have taken the job, and who would if Roy left?  And if anyone mentions Kenny Dalglish…the man is a legend at the club and whilst he would step in, his reputation should never be tarnished with the mess the club’s in at the moment.

Max Power - 04 October 2010 01:24 PM

I was pleased when Hodgson was appointed in the summer - he has shown in the last few years that he can take a group of average players and elevate them beyond where they should be (and has been hugely successful abroad for many years - something a lot of English fans seem to ignore, what with the Premier League [uses David Mitchell’s sarcastic voice] “being the greatest league in the wold.  EVER!”.  Perhaps Fulham have harder working players than the Liverpool squad, but the quality is better at Anfield overall.

I’m still pleased Hodgson is there, although the start has been poor.  He also started poorly at Fulham but left them in a great position.  As Luke says, who else would have taken the job, and who would if Roy left?  And if anyone mentions Kenny Dalglish…the man is a legend at the club and whilst he would step in, his reputation should never be tarnished with the mess the club’s in at the moment.

Id love to see Dalglish appointed and then not be able to change the slump in Liverpools form.

It would just prove a point.

If there isn’t a cash injection into Liverpool then the club will have to think about selling one of their main assets so they can then use that money for other players.  Steven Gerrard is coming to the end of his career and I think Liverpool have gotten the best out of him. Despite this I think they should keep a hold of him because of his innate loyalty to the club and because they won’t get the money required from his sale. Torres on the other hand is a player who doesn’t look happy where he is and a guy that has a poor injury record. Despite his injuries Liverpool could still get a very large amount of money for him. Enough for them to get a few top players who might not be classed in the same bracket as Torres but ones that will make Liverpool a better team.

Of course it’s easy for me to say this as I’m not a Liverpool fan and I don’t hero worship Torres.a

You are out of your mind if you think that:

a) Pellegrini is a better manager than Hodgson
b) Mourinho and Hiddink would entertain going to Liverpool when they’re in the worst state they’ve been in for 50 years.

Some Liverpool fans seem incapable of realising what a mess they’re in. You were LUCKY to get a manager like Hodgson, but he’s not a magician.

Luke I may be out of my mind but yes I do

A) think that Pellegrini is a much better, more progressive and better fit manager for Liverpool than Hodgson. Lets be honest apart from turning lowly Fulham into mid table, plucky Fulham what has he really achieved? He’s 63 and this record is mediocre at very best.

As for point B), I didn’t say that I thought they would actually come (absolutely no chance in current climate, and with very good reason), just that I would not have complained about replacing Rafa with them.
The point I was trying to make was that I didnt disagree with replacing Rafa per se, I just didnt see the logic in replacing a manager with proven top level credentials, one who had steered us to our best league finish for a generation in very season before with largely the same squad, with someone who although very nice, has shown no evidence of being able to do any better, but plenty to suggest he may do much worse.

To use this as evidence that Liverpool fans are deluded is entirely wrong, and indicates a willingness to see something that is not there (no-one on this thread has said anything other than we should be beating blackpool at home at least). We all know what a poison chalice the club currently is, but that doesnt mean that a young ambitious manager still wouldn’t fancy it. We just got beaten by Blackpool and Northampton, pardon us if we don’t feel grateful that an aging and, let’s face it, tired looking journeyman manager has taken us there.

kam1nsk1 - 04 October 2010 03:50 PM

A) think that Pellegrini is a much better, more progressive and better fit manager for Liverpool than Hodgson. Lets be honest apart from turning lowly Fulham into mid table, plucky Fulham what has he really achieved? He’s 63 and this record is mediocre at very best.

A number of titles in Scandanavia, took Inter back to where they should be and into a UEFA Cup final, took Switerland to a World Cup, European Championship and 3rd in the FIFA rankings and took Fulham to their highest top flight finish and a UEFA Cup final.

Proper mediocre that.

That’s all fine (despite your ignorance of Hodgson’s achievements outside of Fulham), but you still haven’t actually suggested a reasonable alternative to Hodgson have you? When Benitez left, give me three managers that would have realistically gone to Liverpool, and who have better credentials than Hodgson. Just three is all I ask.

JonnyGabriel - 04 October 2010 03:56 PM

kam1nsk1 - 04 October 2010 03:50 PM

A) think that Pellegrini is a much better, more progressive and better fit manager for Liverpool than Hodgson. Lets be honest apart from turning lowly Fulham into mid table, plucky Fulham what has he really achieved? He’s 63 and this record is mediocre at very best.

A number of titles in Scandanavia, took Inter back to where they should be and into a UEFA Cup final, took Switerland to a World Cup, European Championship and 3rd in the FIFA rankings and took Fulham to their highest top flight finish and a UEFA Cup final.

Proper mediocre that.

Titles in Scandanavia - not wanting to sound all Tim Lovejoy but it’s hardly Europes elite is it?
Inter - won nothing.
Switzerland - good showing but noting more, they hardly set those tournaments alight. And Fifa rankings? Really? On this forum?
Fulham - Did well, won nothing, finished last season in the bottom half. Set up to draw alot, and did. Not exactly the step forward that ‘Pool fans are looking for is it?

Compared to a Uefa cup win, a champions league win, a champions league final, highest points tally in Liverpools premier league history. Oh, and a couple of La Liga titles with a team that isn’t Barca or Madrid.

Are you really telling me that Hodgson shouldnt be considered a journeyman and he’s actually a huge exciting talent?

kam1nsk1 - 04 October 2010 04:11 PM

JonnyGabriel - 04 October 2010 03:56 PM

kam1nsk1 - 04 October 2010 03:50 PM

A) think that Pellegrini is a much better, more progressive and better fit manager for Liverpool than Hodgson. Lets be honest apart from turning lowly Fulham into mid table, plucky Fulham what has he really achieved? He’s 63 and this record is mediocre at very best.

A number of titles in Scandanavia, took Inter back to where they should be and into a UEFA Cup final, took Switerland to a World Cup, European Championship and 3rd in the FIFA rankings and took Fulham to their highest top flight finish and a UEFA Cup final.

Proper mediocre that.

Titles in Scandanavia - not wanting to sound all Tim Lovejoy but it’s hardly Europes elite is it?
Inter - won nothing.
Switzerland - good showing but noting more, they hardly set those tournaments alight. And Fifa rankings? Really? On this forum?
Fulham - Did well, won nothing, finished last season in the bottom half. Set up to draw alot, and did. Not exactly the step forward that ‘Pool fans are looking for is it?

Compared to a Uefa cup win, a champions league win, a champions league final, highest points tally in Liverpools premier league history. Oh, and a couple of La Liga titles with a team that isn’t Barca or Madrid.

Are you really telling me that Hodgson shouldnt be considered a journeyman and he’s actually a huge exciting talent?

Are you purposely missing the point here? Or am I missing a massive wind-up?

Lukey Moore - 04 October 2010 04:16 PM

kam1nsk1 - 04 October 2010 04:11 PM

JonnyGabriel - 04 October 2010 03:56 PM

kam1nsk1 - 04 October 2010 03:50 PM

A) think that Pellegrini is a much better, more progressive and better fit manager for Liverpool than Hodgson. Lets be honest apart from turning lowly Fulham into mid table, plucky Fulham what has he really achieved? He’s 63 and this record is mediocre at very best.

A number of titles in Scandanavia, took Inter back to where they should be and into a UEFA Cup final, took Switerland to a World Cup, European Championship and 3rd in the FIFA rankings and took Fulham to their highest top flight finish and a UEFA Cup final.

Proper mediocre that.

Titles in Scandanavia - not wanting to sound all Tim Lovejoy but it’s hardly Europes elite is it?
Inter - won nothing.
Switzerland - good showing but noting more, they hardly set those tournaments alight. And Fifa rankings? Really? On this forum?
Fulham - Did well, won nothing, finished last season in the bottom half. Set up to draw alot, and did. Not exactly the step forward that ‘Pool fans are looking for is it?

Compared to a Uefa cup win, a champions league win, a champions league final, highest points tally in Liverpools premier league history. Oh, and a couple of La Liga titles with a team that isn’t Barca or Madrid.

Are you really telling me that Hodgson shouldnt be considered a journeyman and he’s actually a huge exciting talent?

Are you purposely missing the point here? Or am I missing a massive wind-up?

Kam: WHO. ELSE. WOULD. YOU .SUGGEST. WOULD. HAVE. TAKEN. THE. JOB. AT. THE. TIME

Lukey Moore - 04 October 2010 04:07 PM

That’s all fine (despite your ignorance of Hodgson’s achievements outside of Fulham), but you still haven’t actually suggested a reasonable alternative to Hodgson have you? When Benitez left, give me three managers that would have realistically gone to Liverpool, and who have better credentials than Hodgson. Just three is all I ask.

I’m well aware of uncle Woys achievments outside of Fulham, 5 minutes on Wikipedia can see to that. It’s just that, in a career as long as his, they are not exactly the kind of achievements that get the heart racing.

As far as 3 managers better than Hodgson, well for a start why 3? It only takes 1 to manage a club! Pellegrini was availabel and in my opinion would have been a better fit. I would have had Dalglish, even though I know he’s been out of management blah blah, I have no illusions of him getting us on top of the league but just think as a temporary measure he would have given the squad a much needed bounce (you can’t tell me he would have had a worse start, and seeing as Woy is also pretty much a stop gap then long term who cares?). And finally… we had a great manager to start with. Bentitez did not really want to go, and you similarly can’t tell me things would have been worse if he was still there?

Sir Mark Wallace Esq - 04 October 2010 04:21 PM

Lukey Moore - 04 October 2010 04:16 PM

kam1nsk1 - 04 October 2010 04:11 PM

JonnyGabriel - 04 October 2010 03:56 PM

kam1nsk1 - 04 October 2010 03:50 PM

A) think that Pellegrini is a much better, more progressive and better fit manager for Liverpool than Hodgson. Lets be honest apart from turning lowly Fulham into mid table, plucky Fulham what has he really achieved? He’s 63 and this record is mediocre at very best.

A number of titles in Scandanavia, took Inter back to where they should be and into a UEFA Cup final, took Switerland to a World Cup, European Championship and 3rd in the FIFA rankings and took Fulham to their highest top flight finish and a UEFA Cup final.

Proper mediocre that.

Titles in Scandanavia - not wanting to sound all Tim Lovejoy but it’s hardly Europes elite is it?
Inter - won nothing.
Switzerland - good showing but noting more, they hardly set those tournaments alight. And Fifa rankings? Really? On this forum?
Fulham - Did well, won nothing, finished last season in the bottom half. Set up to draw alot, and did. Not exactly the step forward that ‘Pool fans are looking for is it?

Compared to a Uefa cup win, a champions league win, a champions league final, highest points tally in Liverpools premier league history. Oh, and a couple of La Liga titles with a team that isn’t Barca or Madrid.

Are you really telling me that Hodgson shouldnt be considered a journeyman and he’s actually a huge exciting talent?

Are you purposely missing the point here? Or am I missing a massive wind-up?

Kam: WHO. ELSE. WOULD. YOU .SUGGEST. WOULD. HAVE. TAKEN. THE. JOB. AT. THE. TIME

In case you missed it

I’M. SUGGESTING. THAT. LIVERPOOL. GOT. RID. OF. RAFA. KNOWING. THAT. WOY. WAS. WAITING. IN. THE. WINGS. AND. THIS. WAS. A. F_CKUP.

fuck me this is painful… this was my favorite bit:

As far as 3 managers better than Hodgson, well for a start why 3? It only takes 1 to manage a club!

You’re quite the philosopher…

No further questions, your honour

Canadian in Taiwan - 04 October 2010 04:15 PM

Thanks for the replies guys!

I love the guy that called me an idiot and highlighted that I am canadian. Obviously a well educated fellow.

I don’t want liverpool to sell any of the big players at all but its gonna be hard to attract any decent players if the team isn’t playing up to par with the rest of the big EPL teams. Also, a player shouldn’t play or have to play anywhere he doesn’t want to. So, if Torres wants to go, then let him go. I’m of the opinion that the reds are only 1 or 2 players away from really dominating again anyhow and that this slump they are in is only temporary. What about the economics of placing lower in the league or being relegated?

Does anybody have any realistic suggestions on who liverpool could buy to help them out? I’m thinking a LB, DMF, and a ST. My ideas would be:

I’m not sure how to spell his name but the LB for portugal in WC2010… Coentrao? Or Van der Weil from Ajax.
For a DMF I’m not totally sure, they let go one of the best in Mascherano, so… Javi Martinez or Cambiasso or Banega
I think liverpool should go with more experience in a striker…Pavlyuchenko or maybe Podolski. If they did go for younger strikers, i think Van Wolfswinkel is showing he is a proven scorer. I’m also a fan of Andy Carroll.

LB for corinthians Dodo - the new Carlos..

So because we think Hodgson is a good manager (which he is) we’re just believing the global hype machine of Sky Sports? Do fuck off.

Fábio Coentrão is actually a left winger but through lack of better options (similar to Michel Bastos and Brazil) he was used as a left back, and van der Wiel is a right back.

They didn’t have a choice but to let Mascherano go, pretty sure Madrid have designs on Martinez and I can’t see Cambiasso leaving Inter for Liverpool. Liverpool have got to accept that at the moment they aren’t in a position to attract a lot of top name, big money players.

Van Wolfswinkel has only had one good season and that was in the Netherlands (see Kuyt, Alves, Kezman and Hunterlaar for how difficult it can be to replicate that form elsewhere) and Andy Carroll is the main striker and number 9 at the team he’s always loved. Doubt he’d leave.

Personally, I think Liverpool missed a trick before the season started on a few players. It was well known they had little cash to work with, and needed to sell to buy. So if I was the manager I would have been trawling through the Bosmans to try to pick one up. There is still an allure to play for Liverpool, and they could have potentially picked up a number of players that could of improved the squad.

Joe Cole & Jovanovic was a great start, but there was a list of players I certainly would have entertained the thought of signing these Bosmans :

Kris Boyd - could of provided more than able back up to Torres. Plus he’s a little different so could have even played up top alongside Torres.
Hamit Altintop - Bayern eventually offered him a new contract, but right up until after the Champs League final he was teetering. Would have added versatility & dynamism down the right hand side. Could of worked well with Johnson as they have the ability to interchange positions.
Martin Petrov - One of the league’s most underrated players in my opinion. Would have provided creativity down the left side.
William Gallas - You would have to put up with him being a bit of a bit of a knob… but he is very decent. Can provide cover at left back & chips in with the odd goal.
Mark Van Bommel - granted he signed his new contract in March, but I certainly think he could of been tempted to move if approached in January. I can’t believe he’s also only 32! I thought he was about 36!
Joe Ledley - decent player & was the right time for him to make a step up from the Championship

All fairly realistic I would have thought, plus it would have significantly improved the depth of the squad.

Incidentally, I still would have sold of Mascherano, & a number of fringe players just to create more capital for the club. Then spied for the odd bargain here and there round Europe, but obviously that’s impossible to predict.